Why are there so many demoninations?
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Why so disunited? And anybody can just anyhow start a church by registering a society or company & call themselves pastors. How do we know which one is a christian church & which is a scam?
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Not really disunited if you see a church as bringing people to God. They are united in this goal.
How you know? By reading and meditating on Scripture. You may not tell whether catholic or protestant is right, but scams should be easier to spot? -
How? CHC?
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Is CHC a scam?
Do they bring their followers to God? What is their attitude to other people? Their practices may be controversial, but I dun think scam lah. -
mabbe, mabbe or not...
sumone call the Arthur & Andersen pls..oops, forgot..they closed down..
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Every denomination was founded at different time for a different reason, but has a common goal : They want to have their own followers.Originally posted by A dot dot B dot dot:Why so disunited? And anybody can just anyhow start a church by registering a society or company & call themselves pastors. How do we know which one is a christian church & which is a scam?
You will see each having a different practise. Eg. Baptist church conducts baptism by immersing the whole body into the water (not sure how this is done in Sg) while others only pour a little water on the forehead. Some practise speaking in tongues during the worship, while there are some such as the Presbyterians which are against such practise. -
the bottomline for so many denomination is straight forward.Originally posted by A dot dot B dot dot:Why so disunited? And anybody can just anyhow start a church by registering a society or company & call themselves pastors. How do we know which one is a christian church & which is a scam?
If I do not agree with how you worship God (some say must be serious, some say should be happy etc), i will "break" from your group and form my own.
That also means that God must fit into my image of how God should be like. If your image of God does not fit into mine, then i am not comfortable and hence, shall form my own group.
therefore, nowadays, people worship according to how they think God should be.
Is like, i do not accept you as my friend if you are.... but if you are .....(fit into my character of how my friend should be) then you are my friend. -
Precisely why there is so much conflict centred around branches of the same religion (Christians and Muslims alike).Originally posted by pqr:If I do not agree with how you worship God (some say must be serious, some say should be happy etc), i will "break" from your group and form my own.
That also means that God must fit into my image of how God should be like. If your image of God does not fit into mine, then i am not comfortable and hence, shall form my own group.
therefore, nowadays, people worship according to how they think God should be.
Is like, i do not accept you as my friend if you are.... but if you are .....(fit into my character of how my friend should be) then you are my friend. -
Yes, this is how various denominations break away from the original church and they further break into many other denominations.Originally posted by pqr:the bottomline for so many denomination is straight forward.
If I do not agree with how you worship God (some say must be serious, some say should be happy etc), i will "break" from your group and form my own.
That also means that God must fit into my image of how God should be like. If your image of God does not fit into mine, then i am not comfortable and hence, shall form my own group.
therefore, nowadays, people worship according to how they think God should be.
Is like, i do not accept you as my friend if you are.... but if you are .....(fit into my character of how my friend should be) then you are my friend.
Eg. Methodist comes from Anglican Church.
Mormons comes from Presbyterian Church.
Jehovah Witness from Individual Bible studies group.
Martin Luther was working with John Calvin but they couldn't agree on certain issues. So John Calvin broke away from Luther. Luther founded Lutheran Church while John Calvin founded the Presbyterian Church.
King Henry VIII founded the Anglican Church for his own reason. Methodist Church was founded by John Wesley because he didn't agree with the tradition practised by the Anglicans.
Seventh-day Adventists church founded came from Baptist. and Baptist Church came from the Church of English - Anglican.
The non denominational ones, there are too many of them and nobody knows why they set up new churches anyhow. Their intention is quite questionable. There are already so many established churches around. Why still set up new churches/groups? To make money or to get some followers?? We certainly dun know whether they will become another cult group.
The 15th century "Reformation" did a lot of good to the Catholic Church. It woke up the Catholics to focus on missionary. Since, then the Catholic church sent the priests to Asia to preach the gospel. Some of them even risked their life to convert the cannibals in the jungle of Southeast Asia. In fact, many of them died. That's why today there are so many Catholics in Asia.
But the "Reformation" gave a WRONG message to the non Catholic Christians that they can just set up a Christian church whenever and wherever they want, without having to report to any authorities or church HQ. -
Double edge sword?Originally posted by Honeybunz:The 15th century "Reformation" did a lot of good to the Catholic Church. It woke up the Catholics to focus on missionary. The church sent the priests to Asia to preach the gospel. Some of them even risked their life to convert the cannibals in the jungle of Southeast Asia. In fact, many of them died. That's why today there are so many Catholics in Asia.
But the "Reformation" gave a message to the non Catholic Christians that they can just set up a Christian church whenever and wherever they want, without having to report to any authorities or church HQ. -
Well, God can make bad things into good things. The Lord works in mysterious ways.Originally posted by iveco:Double edge sword? -
Yes. Look at how the "Reformation" has helped the Catholic Church, when Martin Luther has intended this to go against the original church and form his own.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Well, God can make bad things into good things. The Lord works in mysterious ways. -
The Reformation was intended as a political movement all along. It sought to seperate church and state. But to be honest, the church had become corrupt and antiquated at that time. It was almost a dictatorship in its own right. This of course, drew the ire of the noblility in many parts of Europe.Originally posted by Honeybunz:Yes. Look at how the "Reformation" has helped the Catholic Church, when Martin Luther has intended this to go against the original church and form his own. -
It was and the Catholic Church has never denied that. This honesty makes all of us proud of the Church. The Catholic Church doesn't distort history like the way others do.Originally posted by iveco:The Reformation was intended as a political movement all along. It sought to seperate church and state. But to be honest, the church had become corrupt and antiquated at that time. It was almost a dictatorship in its own right. This of course, drew the ire of the noblility in many parts of Europe.
The Reformation was a wake up call for the Catholic Pope and Priests. Otherwise, we won't have St Francis Xavier preaching at Malacca and China, and Catholic Priests converting the native tribes. If you go visit the East Malaysia and talk to the natives (who are not muslims) you will notice that they are all Catholics.
If you see any Protestants, that is because the Protestant went there much later to convert the Catholics (like what they are doing in Philippines right now). Funny right? The Catholics risked and lost their lives converting the natives. Many priests were even killed and eaten by the man-eating tribes. And the Protestants just go in and bad mouth the Catholic Church, converting them to their side. -
reason mostly for personal agendas.Originally posted by Honeybunz:Every denomination was founded at different time for a different reason, but has a common goal : They want to have their own followers. -
The Catholic Church doesn't distort history like the way others do.
they do distort history like the inquisition and crusaders. -
They do not distort history. Pope John Paul the 2nd has admitted that the inquistion was a big error and has apologized.Originally posted by stupidissmart:they do distort history like the inquisition and crusaders.
Reagarding inquistions:
Regarding, the crusades, crusaders were not only catholic, there were other demoninations as well.
The so-called bloody Inquisitions, which were initiated by the civil governments of France and Spain, for the purpose of ferreting out Moslems and Jews, who were causing social havoc by posing as faithful Catholic citizens, even as priests and bishops, were indeed approved by the Church. (Non-Catholics who admitted they were non-Catholics were left alone by the Inquisition.) And the vast majority of those questioned by the Inquisition (including St. Theresa of Avila) were completely cleared. Nevertheless, the popes roundly condemned the proceedings when they saw justice giving way to cruel abuses, and it was this insistent condemnation by the popes which finally put an end to the Inquisitions.
Lastly, the people opposing the crusaders were not exactly saints either. It was a war fought by people who twisted religious beliefs. -
The crusades came before the reformation. These 2 events were 500 years apart. Many Jews died when the crusaders sacked Middle Eastern towns. More of them died when the Lutherans instituted pogroms in northern Europe.
At the time of the crusades, there were only 2 denominstions within Christianity, that of the Western (Catholic) church and the Eastern (Orthodox) church. However, both have closely similar doctrines. -
The so-called bloody Inquisitions, which were initiated by the civil governments of France and Spain, for the purpose of ferreting out Moslems and Jews, who were causing social havoc by posing as faithful Catholic citizens, even as priests and bishops, were indeed approved by the Church. (Non-Catholics who admitted they were non-Catholics were left alone by the Inquisition.) And the vast majority of those questioned by the Inquisition (including St. Theresa of Avila) were completely cleared. Nevertheless, the popes roundly condemned the proceedings when they saw justice giving way to cruel abuses, and it was this insistent condemnation by the popes which finally put an end to the Inquisitions.
isn't the above already distorting history ? they r pushing the blame to other people like the gov of france. In 1233, it is Pope Gregory IX tat pronounced the official beginning of "The Inquisition". So the pope is from the france or spain gov ? An organisation was set up then to get rid of a reformist Christian movement, the Cathars of southern France.
Then next u clearly believe tat the people who commit the authrocities r not catholic but gov agent posing as catholic ! Question is, they r catholic or not catholic ? Who ever say tat gov agent cannever be catholic ? Why will they want to target only the jews and muslims then ? Isn't it clear tat catholic was involved in it ? Doesn't the pope agree to it ? For the spanish one I thought the leader is domican monk Tomás de Torquemada. r r u going to say he is unfaithful and not worthy to be called a catholic ?
Saying there r many people who r cleared ? Maybe it is wiser to ask how many had died ? 323,362 people were burned and 17,659 were burned in effigy
The popes condemn ? Even when tat is true isn't 600 years a bit too late ? (The beginning is 1233, last burning in 1834) and it is probably because the modern church lacked the political power to institute wide-ranging reigns of terror and torture around the world, so the Congregation has to settle for sternly admonishing its targets these days. Imagine ! 1834 ! Isn't the date faster than raffles founded singapore in 1819 ?
Isn't tat already twisting history to make themselves smell nicer ? U just prove it out to us.Regarding, the crusades, crusaders were not only catholic, there were other demoninations as well.
But the pope do start and send out the crusaders. It actually give justification for subsequent crusaders -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
Wow, what a great story teller and history inventor . Bravo.
The so-called bloody Inquisitions, which were initiated by the civil governments of France and Spain, for the purpose of ferreting out Moslems and Jews, who were causing social havoc by posing as faithful Catholic citizens, even as priests and bishops, were indeed approved by the Church. (Non-Catholics who admitted they were non-Catholics were left alone by the Inquisition.) And the vast majority of those questioned by the Inquisition (including St. Theresa of Avila) were completely cleared. Nevertheless, the popes roundly condemned the proceedings when they saw justice giving way to cruel abuses, and it was this insistent condemnation by the popes which finally put an end to the Inquisitions.
isn't the above already distorting history ? they r pushing the blame to other people like the gov of france. In 1233, it is Pope Gregory IX tat pronounced the official beginning of "The Inquisition". So the pope is from the france or spain gov ? An organisation was set up then to get rid of a reformist Christian movement, the Cathars of southern France.
Then next u clearly believe tat the people who commit the authrocities r not catholic but gov agent posing as catholic ! Question is, they r catholic or not catholic ? Who ever say tat gov agent cannever be catholic ? Why will they want to target only the jews and muslims then ? Isn't it clear tat catholic was involved in it ? Doesn't the pope agree to it ? For the spanish one I thought the leader is domican monk Tomás de Torquemada. r r u going to say he is unfaithful and not worthy to be called a catholic ?
Saying there r many people who r cleared ? Maybe it is wiser to ask how many had died ? 323,362 people were burned and 17,659 were burned in effigy
The popes condemn ? Even when tat is true isn't 600 years a bit too late ? (The beginning is 1233, last burning in 1834) and it is probably because the modern church lacked the political power to institute wide-ranging reigns of terror and torture around the world, so the Congregation has to settle for sternly admonishing its targets these days. Imagine ! 1834 ! Isn't the date faster than raffles founded singapore in 1819 ?
Isn't tat already twisting history to make themselves smell nicer ? U just prove it out to us.
ut the pope do [b]start and send out the crusaders. It actually give justification for subsequent crusaders[/b]
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u must be talking about the catholic church
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SIS, I believe I mentioned that the Pope already apologized. We do not hide this fact from our future generations.
And by stating the reasons for the inquistion is not distorting history.
By the way Pope was niether from france or spain. -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
How come you never mention the atrocities comitted by the poeple opposing the crusaders, like what they did to the city of constinaople?
But the pope do start and send out the crusaders. It actually give justification for subsequent crusaders
Anyway, I'm not here to bring up the faults of others.
During the crusades, the crusaders might have gone into brutal acess for which popes have apologized. -
No. Talking about a shameless atheist.Originally posted by stupidissmart:u must be talking about the catholic church -
The Spanish Inquisition:
Separate from the Medieval Inquisition was the famed Spanish Inquisition.
It is the most notorious, for three reasons:
1- It was more cruel precisely because it was administered by the secular government.
2- It was concerned, in large part, with the conversos. These were Jews who had converted either under duress or out of social convenience, and were suspected of secretly practicing the Jewish faith.
3- It has been the main target of Protestant and secular opponents of Catholicism who have fabricated — through pamphlets, “histories,” plays, and even paintings — cruelties and excesses far beyond what actually occurred.
Many Protestants use the Inquisition as a handy stick to beat the Catholic Church, but they tend to forget the Protestant Inquisition