Practising Charity on internet forums
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Like I was telling someone a few days ago and also just yesterday.
Human are not borned evil. They are also not borned good. Human are borned curious and courageous.
Imagine everything as tools and these human utilised these tools. Most of the time for their own benefits. The Christian Bible is a book. It's not by any nature harmful, but the words within it are tools. They can use these words against someone, or for the benefit of someone. And that someone is just another tool for them to satisfy their belief that they had done something right.
Good and evil are relative and subjective. Their form of good, may extend to another as an evil. A knife can be used to cut meat, this meat can be food or human flesh.
Human belief is a very scary thing. When someone strongly believe in something, it will only mean that that person cannot accept anything foreign. Religions are subjects where human are supposed to indulge all their faith into it for 'spiritual' benefits, or 'luck'. Thus, they are compelled to deny another's existence and cannot live peacefully with it.
Imagine this scenario, you returned home one day. Your door was ajar, someone dirty looking, was handling your belongings and those items are extremely expensive. Our first thought would be that person is a thief and he's probably stealing from your home.
We sometimes do not comprehend things immediately. We do not easily accept intruders as our nature is basically territorial.
To some it's charity, to others you're mocking them. Learn to accept differences, drawing lines do not really beautify it. -
why need to support? i dont answer to u mainly becos of two things, u are alredi an oldbie, and that u "should" by right seen everything here, and u are not my boss too..
everyone knew the fiasco left by certain glowfish, he stopped, but u still continue ur yakking
ur thread on ancestors, knowing very well that our ancestors practised religions that are still present here today, yet u are non chalant and still continue that topic
its like, knowing muslims abhor pork, and i purposely eat a piece riight in front of them, and still adamamt that its perfectly allright...
this is how u behave in the forums
just one or two month ago, altho this topic is dead, someone brought another thread against chinese mediums or tang kees...
seriously, i dont see any reference to any other religion in other forums, but only in EH it persist....wanna bet?
yeah, wanna add on? how about the remarks made by orneryboy, in mid 2004, that christian faith is the true one, all others are man made religions...
this was in cc
u can be persistent in ur attacks on other religions, but bear in mind me and others will be around watching..and u cant simply stop us from meddling whenever we see make deriding references to other religions..
wanna stop us? give us no reason to do so...
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Precisely.Originally posted by Nelstar:Like I was telling someone a few days ago and also just yesterday.
Human are not borned evil. They are also not borned good. Human are borned curious and courageous.
Imagine everything as tools and these human utilised these tools. Most of the time for their own benefits. The Christian Bible is a book. It's not by any nature harmful, but the words within it are tools. They can use these words against someone, or for the benefit of someone. And that someone is just another tool for them to satisfy their belief that they had done something right.
Good and evil are relative and subjective. Their form of good, may extend to another as an evil. A knife can be used to cut meat, this meat can be food or human flesh.
Human belief is a very scary thing. When someone strongly believe in something, it will only mean that that person cannot accept anything foreign. Religions are subjects where human are supposed to indulge all their faith into it for 'spiritual' benefits, or 'luck'. Thus, they are compelled to deny another's existence and cannot live peacefully with it.
Imagine this scenario, you returned home one day. Your door was ajar, someone dirty looking, was handling your belongings and those items are extremely expensive. Our first thought would be that person is a thief and he's probably stealing from your home.
We sometimes do not comprehend things immediately. We do not easily accept intruders as our nature is basically territorial.
To some it's charity, to others you're mocking them. Learn to accept differences, drawing lines do not really beautify it.
Thats why i made the very statement that evangelism exist in christianity not found in other faiths
This is scary. On one hand, the Christians must deny other faiths, which is pretty a ok. I have never wish to disprove the theologies and rules of Christianity.
But on the other hand, one must consider where the heck we are. If deriding statement are made against other religions, mabbe in France, who gives a hoot. In sg, it can give way to religious riots, easily.
I dont see other Christians denounce or even talk about other faiths, except for the people in the above list.
And may i name people - jworld, singaporemacross, chin eng, bear, kuali - who do not disturb any other faiths, and some chide fellow Christians who behave like god
jeez, gives the people who took an antichrist views no reason to attack christianity or its followers would be a better way out.. -
that I would like to clarify. The topic was brought up at a catholic gathering which inspired us to ponder over our ancestors whom we all love. Honeybunz put this topic up for discussion among the Christians and Catholics because I asked her to do so. Never would we expect to stir up weeks after weeks of arguments between Christians and Non Christians. That was not her intention. And neither was mine.Originally posted by laurence82:ur thread on ancestors, knowing very well that our ancestors practised religions that are still present here today, yet u are non chalant and still continue that topic -
Oh great, have I opened Pandora's Box?Originally posted by laurence82:contradictory ideas within one breath, and finally, a person has recognised there are secular laws...omg....wtf...
thats the problem, deny the real world out there, when confronted, change oneself to suit one needs, not god....
Anyway, secular laws may not be perfect. For example, the government in China outlaws the valid Catholic and Protestant churches, throws their priests and pastors into jails and work camps, and sets up puppet churches. How can anybody accept this injustice?
Just because the law says it's all right, doesn't mean it is morally correct. We must not 'doublethink'. -
hmm, are we talking abt the same topic?Originally posted by JWorld:that I would like to clarify. The topic was brought up at a catholic gathering which inspired us to ponder over our ancestors whom we all love. Honeybunz put this topic up for discussion among the Christians and Catholics because I asked her to do so. Never would we expect to stir up weeks after weeks of arguments between Christians and Non Christians. That was not her intention. And neither was mine.
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Proverbs 2
Moral Benefits of Wisdom
1 My son, if you accept my words
and store up my commands within you,
2 turning your ear to wisdom
and applying your heart to understanding,
3 and if you call out for insight
and cry aloud for understanding,
4 and if you look for it as for silver
and search for it as for hidden treasure,
5 then you will understand the fear of the LORD
and find the knowledge of God.
6 For the LORD gives wisdom,
and from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.
7 He holds victory in store for the upright,
he is a shield to those whose walk is blameless,
8 for he guards the course of the just
and protects the way of his faithful ones.
9 Then you will understand what is right and just
and fair-every good path.
10 For wisdom will enter your heart,
and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul.
11 Discretion will protect you,
and understanding will guard you.
12 Wisdom will save you from the ways of wicked men,
from men whose words are perverse,
13 who leave the straight paths
to walk in dark ways,
14 who delight in doing wrong
and rejoice in the perverseness of evil,
15 whose paths are crooked
and who are devious in their ways.
16 It will save you also from the adulteress,
from the wayward wife with her seductive words,
17 who has left the partner of her youth
and ignored the covenant she made before God. [a]
18 For her house leads down to death
and her paths to the spirits of the dead.
19 None who go to her return
or attain the paths of life.
20 Thus you will walk in the ways of good men
and keep to the paths of the righteous.
21 For the upright will live in the land,
and the blameless will remain in it;
22 but the wicked will be cut off from the land,
and the unfaithful will be torn from it. -
Originally posted by laurence82:why need to support? i dont answer to u mainly becos of two things, u are alredi an oldbie, and that u "should" by right seen everything here, and u are not my boss too..
everyone knew the fiasco left by certain glowfish, he stopped, but u still continue ur yakking
ur thread on ancestors, knowing very well that our ancestors practised religions that are still present here today, yet u are non chalant and still continue that topic
its like, knowing muslims abhor pork, and i purposely eat a piece riight in front of them, and still adamamt that its perfectly allright...
this is how u behave in the forums
just one or two month ago, altho this topic is dead, someone brought another thread against chinese mediums or tang kees...
seriously, i dont see any reference to any other religion in other forums, but only in EH it persist....wanna bet?
yeah, wanna add on? how about the remarks made by orneryboy, in mid 2004, that christian faith is the true one, all others are man made religions...
this was in cc
u can be persistent in ur attacks on other religions, but bear in mind me and others will be around watching..and u cant simply stop us from meddling whenever we see make deriding references to other religions..
wanna stop us? give us no reason to do so...
The forum is set up for good intention. Don't wrack it just because a couple of Christians step on your toes. I believe you have come here to encourage or find encourgement, just like any of us (except S...... nevermind), instead of telling us how wrong Christians are.why need to support? i dont answer to u mainly becos of two things, u are alredi an oldbie, and that u "should" by right seen everything here, and u are not my boss too..[/quote] Well, I don't see it. That's why I am asking you. But if there is no support exists which means that the accusation is just empty say, then I will pretend that I didn't ask. All I see is ppl picking on Christians.
How my thread on ancestors started ... it has already been explained. I don't see how I have condemned our ancestors by starting that. It WAS discussed among us outside the forum with a Catholic priest.
Whatever orneryboy says in mid 2004, it gives you no right nor reason to pick on people here (it's nearing mid 2005!!!). well I am certainly glad to see you noticing some nice ppl in EH, the Bear, SingaporeM, JWorld etc. I thought they have been shielded by the anti-Christian sentiment. But don't you think picking on Christians is going to upset them, just because ornerboy and maybe a couple of others get on your nerves? You think it's fair to them, when they merely come here to get inspired. This is Eternal Hope forum. Not Eternal Flame.seriously, i dont see any reference to any other religion in other forums, but only in EH it persist....wanna bet?
And who started it? Many a times a clean Christian topic will end with some anti-Christians unfavourable judgement. Wanna bet? While I see non Christians stirring up this forum, I am glad that Christians don't go to HOFS etc to create trouble, which is why you "dont see any reference to any other religion in other forums, but only in EH it persist".wanna stop us? give us no reason to do so...
My reason has been put in very simple English. Respect the forum's objective. It is meant to give hope and inspire. That's why it's called Eternal Hope.
In case you don't bother to find out the forum's objective:
[quote]Originally posted by sillyme:A very warm welcome to all! It will be indeed a pleasure to get to know all who frequent this forum
Eternal Hope. A place where we look for hope or provide hope. Indeed, my hope is in Christ, Son of God and Giver of Life. I hope that through this forum, we can share how wonderful God has been in our lives.
Also, it would be a place where we can encourage each other and a place to pray for each other
I welcome all, believers and non-believers, to read and contribute to this forum (even topics other than Christianity) -
Yes. The topic on our ancient Ancestors who have not heard of Christ. The discussion was made out of love for our grandparents, and those before them. It wasn't started for the purpose of condemning our ancestors' religion. I'm afraid some of you might have misunderstood her question in the thread.Originally posted by laurence82:hmm, are we talking abt the same topic? -
But we are talking in sg context.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Oh great, have I opened Pandora's Box?
Anyway, secular laws may not be perfect. For example, the government in China outlaws the valid Catholic and Protestant churches, throws their priests and pastors into jails and work camps, and sets up puppet churches. How can anybody accept this injustice?
Just because the law says it's all right, doesn't mean it is morally correct. We must not 'doublethink'.
Besides, in everyday life, its the secular laws that we abide and obey first and foremost. And such issues plague the US-Christian society, while in sg we kept quiet abt it, some issues which are glaringly different are divorce and abortion. These arent the very issues people confront in this forum, but instead some choose to focus on believers-nonbelievers issues.
The reason why u feel u opened in a pandora box, is because the Roman Catholic forum dont have such nonsense. U didnt experience the backlash before because the forum maintain a peaceful stance.
Its until some people do take a step back, and examine what the other party said, instead of wholly deny they are wrong, can there be improvements.
Its still peeve me that after the whole fiasco last year, someone can act so dumb and still want to continue just because he or she feels like it.
I know many are against stupidissmart posts, and let me put it straight, only a really few challenge his stance. For those who stand one side and remain cowardly, have no right to simply dismiss his posts as unreasonable or that he is illogical to argue with. I mean, who are they to make such judgement? God? -
So how do you find our Catholic forum? Would you like to sign up for RCIA and be a Catholic?Originally posted by laurence82:But we are talking in sg context.
Besides, in everyday life, its the secular laws that we abide and obey first and foremost. And such issues plague the US-Christian society, while in sg we kept quiet abt it, some issues which are glaringly different are divorce and abortion. These arent the very issues people confront in this forum, but instead some choose to focus on believers-nonbelievers issues.
The reason why u feel u opened in a pandora box, is because the Roman Catholic forum dont have such nonsense. U didnt experience the backlash before because the forum maintain a peaceful stance.
Its until some people do take a step back, and examine what the other party said, instead of wholly deny they are wrong, can there be improvements.
Its still peeve me that after the whole fiasco last year, someone can act so dumb and still want to continue just because he or she feels like it.
I know many are against stupidissmart posts, and let me put it straight, only a really few challenge his stance. For those who stand one side and remain cowardly, have no right to simply dismiss his posts as unreasonable or that he is illogical to argue with. I mean, who are they to make such judgement? God?
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I am afraid, and i explained many times, that whatever our ancestors practised still exist today.Originally posted by JWorld:Yes. The topic on our ancient Ancestors who have not heard of Christ. The discussion was made out of love for our grandparents, and those before them. It wasn't started for the purpose of condemning our ancestors' religion. I'm afraid some of you might have misunderstood her question in the thread.
Since we are talking in sgforums, and sg having a multi racial multi religious society, it will be the Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism and Chinese folklore.
Trying to go along the line our ancestors go wrong, is akin to chaffing present faiths now. And i am afraid its a minefield to step in by opening such topic.
Secondly, a lot of people always think because EH is a wholly Christian forum, that they have a) the freedom of choice to talk whatever they want and b) others have a choice not to click on that topic.
i can say nothing but freedom of speech and freedom of choice are nothing but poor cover for neglecting responsibilty.
This is, no matter what people say, a public forum. Its akin to a pastor deriding other faiths within church grounds, but within earshot of passer bys, and he claimed passer bys have choice not to hear. No attempt is made to hold such talks at enclosed room or out of earshot of passer bys.
If anyone think non believers can stand by and do nothing, while their faiths have been abused, think again.
It also become another issue of people thinking they gain superiority over others simple because they follow a certain faith. Where is the humility?
By proposing non believers have the choice not to click onto a topic, sumtimes i can do nothing but to shake head at such arrogance. -
Well, let me be frank .I am not a believer in Christ. But comparing few denominations and looking at my Catholic cousins, there is a shift in the Christian world.Originally posted by JWorld:So how do you find our Catholic forum? Would you like to sign up for RCIA and be a Catholic?
There are abuses within the RC world from the middle age, where the popes do commit crimes such as declaring war for political gains, rape and looting.
After which such abuses are relieved by Martin Luther and his 95 theses.
Then the whole thing shift against RC. RC becoms like weak lamb, while the Christian Protestantism Evangelism gooblegook took over.
I am appalled by the evangelism stance sometimes, where there is no effort to make peace, where people chide other faiths for the glory of god.
RC takes a peaceful stance, and now is sometimes subjected to chiding and teasing by prostestants. I thought they have such things in early years of USA, by KKK, and in 17th century Europe, where they tot everything was a Jesuit plot.
But, it happens here, which is appalling.
I wont be a Christian, but I admire the RC peaceful stance the most. -
"All i see is people picking on Christians"
A very glaring example of denial and blind to other things. Need I say more?
Besides, if i were to questioned why i picked a bone abt something that happened in mid 2004, it means two things
There is such a thing exist. There are proud Christians who make such contemptuous remarks.
Second, fact is fact. There are such things happened. I dont see a problem with the timeframe. If I committed a crime ten years ago, am i to stay out the storm and hope to get forgiveness ten years later?
So i cant mention something because it does happen and that it happen 'so long' ago? Anyway, the time frame is opened to abuses by people who simply what to set it aside as picking bones. Good try. But not on me.
And i mention right from first page, there are black sheeps. Its u guys responsibility to advise them. Just because there are so few, doesnt give anyone the right to simply put them down as the insignificant few. Also another excuse to turn blind to these issues.
Lastly the forum objective..hmm, sounds nice, but never in practice. If u guys dont know, and i wont reveal who, there are people who propose to forum founder long long time ago to try to mod the tone of some of the extremist. Never been done. Alredi lost hope long time ago liao lor, need to put in forum objective in front of me for fiak?
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Let us acknowledge that we Christians are not perfect. We will shamefully admit that many of us have bashed others in our posts. Let us continue instruct the ignorant and to admonish the sinner. Also, it is time to get our house in order.
Let us not fall into the snares of the devil by replying others with hateful vulgar language and wild accusations. Do not forget that God will put down the proud.
Voltaire says, "I am opposed to what you are saying, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
So while practicising free speech, let us continue to compose our posts in a Christian manner.
It's kind of funny that I'm quoting a famous cynic. -
wtf...Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Let us acknowledge that we Christians are not perfect. We will shamefully admit that many of us have bashed others in our posts. Let us continue instruct the ignorant and to admonish the sinner. Also, it is time to get our house in order.
Let us not fall into the snares of the devil by replying others with hateful vulgar language and wild accusations. Do not forget that God will put down the proud.
Voltaire says, "I am opposed to what you are saying, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
So while practicising free speech, let us continue to compose our posts in a Christian manner.
It's kind of funny that I'm quoting a famous cynic.
anyway, chit chat no longer has those anti christian topics, lets hope it wont happen here or in CC again.... -
I certain hope so. There are some, like yourself, are for most part, rational, polite and have the decency to respect.Originally posted by laurence82:wtf...
anyway, chit chat no longer has those anti christian topics, lets hope it wont happen here or in CC again....
Then there are others who come in guns ablazing..... so what do we do then?
We all know who are non-Christians and who are anti-Christians, don't we, Larry....??? I know that you are NOT anti-Christians but anti-Christian-IDIOTS... so am I..... -
There are Christian bashers I'm aware of, and some Christian who are not sensitive enough and needs to be reminded everytime.
lau neng, u created enough awareness liao la.
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the only level of awareness i wish to reach is for automationOriginally posted by Nelstar:There are Christian bashers I'm aware of, and some Christian who are not sensitive enough and needs to be reminded everytime.
lau neng, u created enough awareness liao la.
oops
i mean, the level where when someone post something that bash other religions, covertly or overtly, and the auto-mechanism kicks in, whereby someone, preferabbly from the same faith, point out, and discuss the very points where the topic might be inflammatory..
no flamm pls... -
It's the internet afterall, it won't be easy to police threads about such things. We might as well be Admins. Haha.Originally posted by laurence82:the only level of awareness i wish to reach is for automation
oops
i mean, the level where when someone post something that bash other religions, covertly or overtly, and the auto-mechanism kicks in, whereby someone, preferabbly from the same faith, point out, and discuss the very points where the topic might be inflammatory..
no flamm pls...