Is Jesus really sinless?
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Originally posted by burntan:
Yes! It is an extremely grave sin!
[b]masturbation is sin?[/b]
Masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.
The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose. For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.
- Catechism of the Catholic Church (2351-54)
Sexuality, by means of which man and woman give themselves to one another through the acts which are proper and exclusive to spouses, is not something simply biological, but concerns the innermost being of the human person as such. It is realized in a truly human way only if it is an integral part of the love by which a man and woman commit themselves totally to one another until death."
- Catechism of the Catholic Church (2360-61)
Sexuality is ordered to the conjugal love of man and woman.
In marriage the physical intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion. -
Masturbation is a sin ? Where is the scripture lines tat states such ? And don't tell me oman and his seed since it is not about masturbation but withdrawal nor tell me about sodom since it is about gay. U tell me wat the church say, but it is not convincing since church is made of men and men err. So why is masturbation a sin ? More than 80% of the population do masturbate and the statement tat it is a disordered action can't be more wrong
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when someone does that, it is really in violation of one of the ten commandments: the one about using God's name in vain.Originally posted by laurence82:x2
yes, while there is nothing wrong to atrribute events to god, or to leave things in god hands, its tad too fake, when i start to see a few who started attributing everything to god, or use god as an excuse for stuff they committed...
I do not do that and I don't think many Christians do that. As said before, there are some black sheep out there (I call them loonies) who at the drop of a a hat, would claim divine intervention or divine mandate. This is no different from the things happening between the sunnis and the shittes in Iraq.
To the other "smart" folks here: I do not disagree with many of the things discussed in EH. I have not defended Christians who indiscriminately and under unprovoked circumstances attack non-believers within EH as well as the other topics. In many instances I have been on the side of the arguments of good, honest, and respectable non-Christians like Laurence here, as well as others like Poopiehead and even good Muslims like WhitePawn. So please put this argument to rest that I lack patience or "can't take emotions when reading forums" (or whatever this statement means). It is not just my conclusion that some non-Christians are totally caustic and in many instance uninformed in their writing. Others too have expressed their disdain over such trends of writing. -
Read many times already..... waiting for the movie too.... Tom Hanks has replaced Russell Crowe as the Robert Langdon and Audrey Tautou (I think) has replaced Kate Beckinsale as Marie.Originally posted by da_xing_xing:Please read the Da Vinci Code
by Dan Brown.
Please all go read it.
Totally interesting but also totally fabricated..... can give you some reference but I'd rather not. Have been accused of indiscriminately quoting from other people..... -
The fact that plenty of people are doing it does not mean it is right. Many people jaywalk, but we all know that it's against the law. And how do you know that more than 80% of the population masterbate? You are basing what you say on Alfred Charles Kinsey's studies?Originally posted by stupidissmart:Masturbation is a sin ? Where is the scripture lines tat states such ? And don't tell me oman and his seed since it is not about masturbation but withdrawal nor tell me about sodom since it is about gay. U tell me wat the church say, but it is not convincing since church is made of men and men err. So why is masturbation a sin ? More than 80% of the population do masturbate and the statement tat it is a disordered action can't be more wrong
Withdrawal and other forms of birth control is almost as good as masturbation. Onan wanted to have sex with nobody but himself. Was he interested in pleasing his partner? No, he was only interested in his selfish gains.
Let me tell you, masturbation is contrary to the natural law, because it is selfish. You care only for your own pleasure when you do it. -
The fact that plenty of people are doing it does not mean it is right. Many people jaywalk, but we all know that it's against the law. And how do you know that more than 80% of the population masterbate? You are basing what you say on Alfred Charles Kinsey's studies?
The fact tat many people do it means it is "normal", and not a disordered act. U can say jaywalking is against the law yet even police jaywalk themselves. It has become such tat it is normal for people to jaywalk when there is no traffic lights nearbyWithdrawal and other forms of birth control is almost as good as masturbation. Onan wanted to have sex with nobody but himself. Was he interested in pleasing his partner? No, he was only interested in his selfish gains.
Wrong. Withdrawal and other form of birth control has NOTHING to do with masturbation. Masturbation DOES not involve another partner and just themselves. Saying masturbation is the same as withdrawal is the same as taking drug is the same as taking chewing gums. Was Onan interested in pleasing himself only ? He seems to be punshed just because he do not want his offspring to be his dead brother ones and thus disobeying god thus was punished.
But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother.Let me tell you, masturbation is contrary to the natural law, because it is selfish. You care only for your own pleasure when you do it
And wat harm does it done ? Can u say when u play video games, u r selfish and do it for your own pleasure and therefore a sin ? Why deprive yourself from pleasure when it does no harm ? Is animal natural ? Animals do masturbate themselves as well. If it is sinful, than god will never have build them as such so they can masturbate.
Animals too masturbate by forelimbs or by rubbing their penis against the trees or such objects.
http://www.sexualcounselling.com/masturbation.htm -
SIS raised a very good point. Why is masturbation a sin? The only reason I can think of is the masturbater commiting spiritual adultery at the same time.
I hope this is not a personal attack .. but we can see how Catholic policies like anti-contraception is affecting the society. Look at Philippines and how Arroyo is restrained by the Catholic Church. Almost no birth control. More babies. More starvation. More deaths. -
He is saying a lot (majority of guys?) of people is doing that. No need studies also know right?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:And how do you know that more than 80% of the population masterbate? You are basing what you say on Alfred Charles Kinsey's studies?
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I'm sorry...but i really had a headache reading ur long posts abt Jesus thingy n God...
1) How much do you actually know abt Jesus?
2) How much do you know abt God?
Care to explain? -
masturbation is just "commiting spiritual adultery "Originally posted by Icemoon:SIS raised a very good point. Why is masturbation a sin? The only reason I can think of is the masturbater commiting spiritual adultery at the same time.
I hope this is not a personal attack .. but we can see how Catholic policies like anti-contraception is affecting the society. Look at Philippines and how Arroyo is restrained by the Catholic Church. Almost no birth control. More babies. More starvation. More deaths.
Is that what your church teaches ?
More babies = more death and starvation?
Don't Christian churches teach about pro-life?
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masturbation is just "commiting spiritual adultery "
Frankly speaking masturbaion is not equivalent to "spiritual aultery". (If I am not wrong u must be talking about jesus words on committing adultery just by looking or thinking) However there r people who can commit the act on fiction character from certain stories or "anime" etc. Can u commit adultery to a fiction character ? Can u "murder" a fiction character even if u try ?
Secondly, can u "commit adultery" to a willing party ? Frankly if u ask any good looking celebrity, all of them know it is inevitable some people will use them as object for "spiritual adultery". However do u think they care ? They don't as it will not do any harm to them anyway.Don't Christian churches teach about pro-life?
Lets be practical. If the sole breadwinner of the family only earns $800 per month, u cannot expect him to raise 5-6 children. Giving birth to unwanted children, or unable to take care of them is a sin of its own. Is using contraceptive killing anything ? Hardly since sperm and egg are cells not living things. If u r talking about pure pro-life, then the priest or sister should try to conceive before their egg cycle ends or waste the sperm in wet dreams.
BTW which passage in the scripture suggest contraceptive is a sin ? -
SIS raised quite good points. Which is more pro life? unwanted pregnancy between husband and wife due to no contraceptive or lan lan see children die of starvation? Picture those pitiful African children ..Originally posted by FrustMom:More babies = more death and starvation?
Don't Christian churches teach about pro-life?
Forgive me for saying this .. but the way it is happening in Philippines (read Today), the Catholic Church is looking like modern day Pharisees.
Is this what Jesus would have wanted? -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
We do not know how the future of those unwanted pregnancies or African children will turn out,therefore we cannot assume all of them will die in misery.
SIS raised quite good points. Which is more pro life? unwanted pregnancy between husband and wife due to no contraceptive or lan lan see children die of starvation? Picture those pitiful African children ..
The Catholic church counsels couples before marrige on family planning without the use of contraceptives.
Forgive me for saying this .. but the way it is happening in Philippines (read Today), the Catholic Church is looking like modern day Pharisees.
Is this what Jesus would have wanted?
Secondly, the act of sex is to serve the function of creating new life, sure it is all right for a husband and wife to have sex for pleasure but they should realize what is the priamry function of sex.
The Catholic church also teaches abstainance and when are the certain periods to have sex without getting a baby. -
Are you ignorant or what? You know everyday how many of those children are dying from starvation and malnutrition? Maybe SIS can show the stats. It is happening everyday and has happened in the past.Originally posted by plo30360:We do not know how the future of those unwanted pregnancies or African children will turn out,therefore we cannot assume all of them will die in misery.
Need all die in misery then can we say "wrong policy"? Need all who go casino go bankrupt liao then we can say casino is bad?The Catholic church counsels couples before marrige on family planning without the use of contraceptives.
How does that help? Tell that to youngsters today. Maybe they plan sui sui then won't have the uni undergrad throw baby case liao.Secondly, the act of sex is to serve the function of creating new life, sure it is all right for a husband and wife to have sex for pleasure but they should realize what is the priamry function of sex.
Huh .. you said it is all right then you say they shd realize ..?The Catholic church also teaches abstainance and when are the certain periods to have sex without getting a baby.
Teach me. I also want to know when to have sex without getting baby. Ask any matured zha bo. They tell you the danger of irregular or early/late menstruation. -
Yes, there are a lot of children who die. But, if you do not give a chance to the some who might have a great future is it fair to them? Just because you think that the majority of them are going to die...
Are you ignorant or what? You know everyday how many of those children are dying from starvation and malnutrition? Maybe SIS can show the stats. It is happening everyday and has happened in the past.
Need all die in misery then can we say "wrong policy"? Need all who go casino go bankrupt liao then we can say casino is bad?
This is where education comes into play, obviously our education system has failed in this aspect.
How does that help? Tell that to youngsters today. Maybe they plan sui sui then won't have the uni undergrad throw baby case liao.
My mistake for not posting my point clearly .
Huh .. you said it is all right then you say they shd realize ..?
First off all sex is meant to create new life. When a husband and wife get married they indicate that they want to create a new family, therefore children would be a sign of this new family.
Its all right for husband and wife to enjoy sex but they must be fully aware that sex is meant to procreate.
Again, another clarity mistake,I am not refering to a women's periods or menstruation specifically.
Teach me. I also want to know when to have sex without getting baby. Ask any matured zha bo. They tell you the danger of irregular or early/late menstruation.
I will obtain the releveant article and post it here to show you what I mean. -
Jesus is the opposite of me. I'm the total bastard. he's the nice guy
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is erm. playing mahjong a sin?
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No, unless you are addicted, or if it interferes with your duties.Originally posted by dumbdumb!:is erm. playing mahjong a sin? -
We are not at the same frequency. Are we discussing abortion now?Originally posted by plo30360:Yes, there are a lot of children who die. But, if you do not give a chance to the some who might have a great future is it fair to them? Just because you think that the majority of them are going to die...
Haha .. you telling me by blocking the sperm into the ******, we are denying the child a chance to live? -
About starvation:
Why do children starve in Africa? Is it because there are too many people? Or is it because that the world cannot produce enough food?
No!
The world has more than enough food! The problem is the severely uneven distribution of food. Did you know some governments pay their farmers to grow less food? Or food is withheld from starving populations as a tool of political warfare and discrimatory policies?
But no, instead of giving these nations food and medicine, we teach them contraception and birth control. They will not solve the problem of starvation?
May God have mercy on all of us. -
Do you see Philippines children starving like those in Africa?Originally posted by Icemoon:SIS raised quite good points. Which is more pro life? unwanted pregnancy between husband and wife due to no contraceptive or lan lan see children die of starvation? Picture those pitiful African children ..
Forgive me for saying this .. but the way it is happening in Philippines (read Today), the Catholic Church is looking like modern day Pharisees.
Is this what Jesus would have wanted?
Yes, Philippines is over populated. So are Indonesia and China. Does that have to do with the Catholic Church?
If you want to blame all issues on the church, then maybe you want to look at the abortion rate in USA, where Protestants are of higher population. Can I say Protestants are like modern day Babylon? -
the world is a cocked up place
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We do not know how the future of those unwanted pregnancies or African children will turn out,therefore we cannot assume all of them will die in misery
It is statistically true tat a large number of them will die in hunger or sickness at a very young age. If u cannot provide food and drink for your baby and u still give birth to them, it is second degree infanticide. Wat is the difference between giving birth to a baby and give him nothing to eat and thus die a slow agonising death or throwing them down a rubbish chute ? The one tat die in the rubbish chute dies a quicker death. When u use contraceptive, no harm has been doen to anyone or any being. The sperms and eggs r nothing more than cells, much like the skin or hair on your body. Why decide to kill off living beings just because u want some cells to be more useful ? They will die anyway after a period of time and they r reproduced everyday as well.The Catholic church counsels couples before marrige on family planning without the use of contraceptives.
It is scientifically proven tat it is not effective. The most useful way to prevent unnecessary birth is the use of contraceptivesBut, if you do not give a chance to the some who might have a great future is it fair to them?
If u give birth to them, and no miracles occured and they die a slow and agonising death. Is it fair for them ?This is where education comes into play, obviously our education system has failed in this aspect
Tis is a worldwide phenomenon. If our education system fails, then it meant the whole world education system fails as well. I want to hear the solution, not hear blames.First off all sex is meant to create new life. When a husband and wife get married they indicate that they want to create a new family, therefore children would be a sign of this new family.
If enough new lives were created, does tat means the end of all sexual activities ? God made sexual activity to be enjoyable, yet u all stop it from proceeding ? Furthermore there is nothing in the bible tat says masturbation or contraceptives cannot be used. U want to follow the church orders blindly ? Who knows maybe u will follow crusades or burn your next door neighbour when u believe she is a witch if u obey church orders during the past.Its all right for husband and wife to enjoy sex but they must be fully aware that sex is meant to procreate
U admit it is enjoyable. In today society sexual activity between spouses is an important consideration in maintaining a happy marriage. Contraceptive is a good solution to have a cake and eat it. Why stop it ?Why do children starve in Africa? Is it because there are too many people? Or is it because that the world cannot produce enough food?
Tat is beside the point. SO wat if the world has an uneven distribution of food ? It is a fact some african nation cannot get enough food ! It is a fact tat babies do starve to death there ! There is no way u can change tat fact ! There is no way u can make the rich nations give out food to them regularly ! If u live there, would u use contraceptive to prevent birth or give birth to babies and let them die miserably ? Which is better ?
No!
The world has more than enough food! The problem is the severely uneven distribution of food. Did you know some governments pay their farmers to grow less food? Or food is withheld from starving populations as a tool of political warfare and discrimatory policies?
But no, instead of giving these nations food and medicine, we teach them contraception and birth control. They will not solve the problem of starvation?Does that have to do with the Catholic Church
Does catholic churches banned the use of contraceptives ? If yes, then it do affect the populaton control for philipines since it is their main religion. -
Ok, why is the Philippines government afraid of over-population? Tell me why are they afraid. You tell me.Originally posted by FrustMom:Do you see Philippines children starving like those in Africa?
Yes, Philippines is over populated. So are Indonesia and China. Does that have to do with the Catholic Church?If you want to blame all issues on the church, then maybe you want to look at the abortion rate in USA, where Protestants are of higher population.
Wait .. do the Protestant Church (as if there is one .. duh) of America lobby for abortion? Or is abortion more of a secular decision? -
abortion is a decision, where got secular or not secular wan... the christian faith don't support abortion, or sex b4 marraige, but still got ppl go for it..